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Unions | Munk Debates

SEASON TWO - EPISODE #78

Unions

Be it resolved, workers of the world, unite!

Guests
Heidi Shierholz
Arthur B. Laffer

About this episode

Unions are making a comeback. Frustrated with pay, benefits, job security, and working conditions, Amazon workers in Staten Island and Starbucks employees across New York have opted to join unions and initiate collective bargaining with their employers, inspiring a wave of pro-union discussions and meetings among big retail workers across Canada and the US. Many believe that America’s dwindling union membership – down to 11.2% of the workforce compared a near 30% high in the 1950’s – is to blame for rising income inequality and wage stagnation. Organized labour, they argue, is an important tool in fighting corporate influence. They also strengthen workers’ rights, increase private and public sector employee bargaining power, and prevent companies from making low-income jobs obsolete via automation or offshore employment. In short, fewer unions mean lower pay for everybody.

Other economists argue that unions are not the answer to our current economic woes. Organized labour, they maintain, inflates the wages of a privilege few, while reducing economic output by tying job security and pay to seniority instead of productivity and skill, thereby punishing high-value workers. The 21st century, rather, demands a workforce that champions flexibility, individual bargaining power, and risk-taking on behalf of its workers. The answer to income inequality is to do away with unions and put more power back into the hand of the individual worker.

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Guests

Heidi Shierholz

“Unions reduce the wage suppressing effects of corporate power by providing countervailing power to workers.”

Heidi Shierholz

“Unions reduce the wage suppressing effects of corporate power by providing countervailing power to workers.”

Heidi Shierholz is the president of the Economic Policy Institute (EPI) in Washington, D.C. Prior to joining EPI, she was the Chief Economist at the U.S. Department of Labor during the Obama administration. Throughout her career, Shierholz has provided policymakers and economic commentators with research and analysis on labor market dynamics, labor and employment policy, and the effects of economic policies on low- and middle-income families. She is regularly called upon to testify in congress and her research and commentary on labor and employment policy, unemployment insurance, wage stagnation and inequality, racial and gender disparities in the labor market, employer and worker power, the effects of automation on the labor market, the impact of COVID-19 on the economy, and other topics have been cited in many broadcast, radio, print, and online news outlets, including ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, PBS, NPR, The New York Times, The Washington Post, and The Wall Street Journal. After receiving her Ph.D. in economics from the University of Michigan, she was an Assistant Professor of Economics at the University of Toronto in Toronto, Ontario. She also has an M.S. in statistics from Iowa State University, and a B.A. in mathematics from Grinnell College in Iowa. 

Arthur B. Laffer

“Inequality is exacerbated by unions. And the reason people move to non-union states is because they get better jobs and they don't have to pay union dues.”

Arthur B. Laffer

“Inequality is exacerbated by unions. And the reason people move to non-union states is because they get better jobs and they don't have to pay union dues.”

A rthur B. Laffer is the founder and chairman of Laffer Associates, an economic research and consulting firm . Dr. Laffer has distinction in many publications as “The Father of Supply - Side Economics.” Dr. Laffer was a member of President Reagan’s Economic Policy Advisory Board for both of his two terms (198 1 - 1989) and was a founding member of the Reagan Executive Advisory Committee for the presidential race of 1980. He also advised Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher on fiscal policy in the UK during the 1980s. In 2019, Dr. Laffer was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by Presi dent Donald Trump. Dr. Laffer currently sits on the board of directors or advisors of a number of private and public companies and has authored numerous books including An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of States (Wiley 2014) and, most recently, Trumponomics: Inside the America First Plan to Revive Our Economy (All Points Books 2018).

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